Interview with NICK ZEDD
"Making Movies/Menstrual Wars"
by Alexander Laurence
Nick Zedd is the founder of The
Cinema of Transgression. His first films, THEY EAT SCUM (1979) and THE BOGUS
MAN (1980), and his publication of The Underground Film Bulletin (1983-1990),
established him as an important underground filmmaker and a champion of the
movement. Zedd's manifestos promised "blood, shame, pain, and ecstasy, the
likes of which no one has yet imagined." During the 1980s Zedd
collaborated with Richard Kern, Lydia Lunch, Richard Hell, Cassandra Stark, Ela
Troyano, Kembra Pfahler, and Alyce Wittenstein, most of whom are associated
with New York underground film.
In the 1980s Nick Zedd continued
to make movies and show them in New York City
and at film festivals in Europe and around the country.
His body of work includes GEEK MAGGOT BINGO (1983), THE WILD WORLD OF LYDIA
LUNCH (1983), THRUST IN ME (1984), KISS ME GOODBYE (1986), POLICE STATE (1987),
WHOREGASM (1988), and WAR IS MENSTRUAL ENVY (!990-92). Zedd has recently exhibited
his films at The Museum of Modern Art and The Whitney Museum. In 1992, he
published his memoir BLEED PART ONE (Hanuman Books). In 1997, we will be seeing
his first book TOTEM OF THE DEPRAVED (2.13.61) which recalls his experiences
with the New York film
underground. Zedd is currently working on a new novel. Two collections of his
films are available: STEAL THIS VIDEO and THE CINEMA OF TRANSGRESSION. These
films and a catalogue can be obtained from Nick Zedd himself at PO
Box 1589 , New York , NY
10009 .
Alexander Laurence: Do you
consider yourself foremost a writer or a filmmaker?
Nick Zedd: I'm just a person like
anyone else. When I was doing the movies I was writing because I did the
screenplays. I used to write a lot for The Underground Film Bulletin. Trying to
write a long book, I first started doing that in the late 1980s mainly with the
idea of doing of a novel. I was living on 17th Street
in a basement. It was miserable because all these rats were crawling
everywhere. They were running around. One fairly big rat came up through the
toilet swimming through the pipes. We couldn't flush it down. Then there was
this horrible midget Super who would come in every morning at 5AM with his dog. He would make all this racket
and wake me up. I thought about writing a novel about being a murderer. I was
fantasizing about killing. Then the girl who I was living with disappeared and
left for Hollywood to become a porn
star. I thought about writing a story about her with sex and eating shit. The
idea was that I was going to write about killing people because there were all
these people who I hated.
Then
I went to Sweden ,
to show movies, and I hung out with this crazy girl, Frida. When I came back I
realized that I had enough from that to make a book of true stories. Darius
James got me a gig writing for Penthouse. One of the earliest things that I
wrote for them was about Lydia Lunch. Then I had a chapter there. I finished
that in a couple years. I called it "Bleed." Now it's called Totem of The Depraved.
NZ: To me the mechanics of making
a movie are not as interesting as the personalities that you come in contact
with.
NZ: There were a lot of rats that
jumped off the sinking ship, but I was not one of them. There were opportunists
and there still are. People pretend now that they were so exploited back then.
They say "We deserve more attention than Zedd, Kern and Lunch. Poor us, we
don't get any attention." But they weren't the people who were putting up
posters. I'm the one who did, and still do. I put up five hundred posters and
got arrested. These other filmmakers put up three posters and nobody showed up,
then they complained about getting no attention. As with any movement, it
disintegrates. People end up hating each other. I guess there were some things
we had in common: we were all the same age and lived in the same neighborhood.
NZ: I still talk to Kern, Richard
Hell, and Tessa Hughes-Freeland.
NZ: No. Well, the curator bought
a full set of Film Bulletins to educate himself, belatedly. That helped him. I
think that they were a bit lazy. Their emphasis seemed to be dictated by what
the journalists said to them, which is typical. They just went by what other
journalists wrote instead of examining the films that are more significant.
NZ: No. I really have nothing in
common with those people. Ferrera is a commercial filmmaker: making movies with
Madonna? That really has nothing to do with no wave cinema. The academic
community is always very slow in catching up. They are arrogant. They assume
that they are the center of the universe, when in reality, they are quite
irrelevant. The people who organized the retrospective at The Whitney are
living in the year 1980. Maybe in twenty years they'll do a "real"
retrospective of The Cinema of Transgression. They are very slow but they're
catching up. A lot of this is based on the nostalgia of the person curating.
They wait until something is dead so they can pay attention to it. In the
meantime they ignore all the current work done by these same people.
NZ: POLICE STATE is not a
conventional movie. It has a radical message, even though it's a linear
narrative. WAR IS MENSTRUAL ENVY is more experimental. The Museum
of Modern Art had no interest in
showing that one, and neither did the Whitney
Museum , which was enormously
foolish of them.
NZ: It's great that Christianity
is falling apart. I'm surprised that so many born again Christians are invading
Manhattan . These are people who
claim to be creative but mentally they are not too creative. I don't believe in
God. I'm an atheist. I think that religion is really stupid. It's a sign of
weakness.
NZ: Yes. That means that man is
the center of one's universe, instead of an unseen humanoid deity. That belief
in a higher authority being there to bail you out after you die is really a
form of cowardice that I don't respect. It's intellectually weak. I am
surprised that there are so many people in the so called art scene who fall for
this. There are a lot of weak people I guess. New York
is the center of the world to them, so they figure that they can leech off
other people's ideas, or become part of a scene. There are a lot of fraudulent
people who zero in on the East Village .
They're just opportunists looking for some of the limelight. They are not
offering us anything new, especially if they're going to church on Sunday.
NZ: No. Belief is not necessary.
You live your life and you do things. God is not a necessary concept. I thought
people knew this. Nietzsche pointed this out. There are people who are ignorant
enough to think that Nietzsche has something to do with Hitler. He has nothing
to do with Hitler. That's what the powers that be did to denigrate and demonize
Nietzsche, because his ideas are revolutionary. Nietzsche hated nationalism and
militarism. He's the exact opposite of Hitler who used these things to enslave
millions of people. Anyone with a brain who reads Nietzsche will see that.
NZ: I think that people get
confused by thinking that maximum exposure equals subversion. Not necessarily.
It depends on the message. I do think that it's better to create media than to
absorb it. You should be making something and getting it seen.
NZ: Whatever assumptions you have
about any institution, you bring those assumptions with you. It's probably more
subversive having my video at Blockbuster rather than having it shown at The
Whitney Museum. Both places are just platforms to get my stuff seen. So then
the snooty uptown art fags go to the museums, and the rest of the general
population goes to the video store. Of that group of people, the majority is
just going to rent the latest Michelle Pfeiffer film. There's a tiny minority
that's into something weird or subversive. I don't think much changes in the
world when you make a movie or a book. You can affect a few people. I don't
have illusions that it's going to create a big change, doing anything. But
sometimes things that are buried, ignored and marginalized by one generation
are then revered in the future when people look back to see what had some
purity. What was created that didn't have the sole intention of making loads of
money. What was done for other reasons.
NZ: Rick Strange started his own
satanic church, and moved to San Francisco .
He led a group of pagans and occultists on a protest against an evangelist, and
then converted to Christianity and destroyed his church. He became an
evangelist himself. Eric then married a girl who he performed an exorcism on
without divorcing his first wife. Nightline did an exposé on the evangelist who
Eric befriended, Larry Lee. Lee bought Eric a golf course condo, and started
giving him a thousand dollars a month to appear as "The witch who
switched: from Pagan to Pentecost." Eric Pryor started preaching in
military fatigues. The last time I heard from him, he called me long distance
from a motel somewhere drunk out of his mind claiming that he was going to be
leading a para-military operation in Central America to
save souls. I haven't heard from him since. He was hoping that I would convert
to Christianity so they could claim that the evil Nick Zedd had switched over.
They wanted me to be one of their big triumphs but I refused. Eventually Larry
Lee's empire crumbled. It was nice that Rick Strange helped to destroy that
empire without even knowing it.
NZ: Those people have been
inconsistent. I've remained consistent: I still hate the government, and I'm
still doing what I've always done. Rick Strange was a con-artist. Everybody
hated him. He was pretty wild. He stole from everyone.
NZ: The last time I saw her was four
years ago. She was with the same guy that she's been with for years. She hasn't
done anything since. She still seemed to hate me for dumping her for Lydia
Lunch.
NZ: She's making bad home movies
that nobody cares about and people laugh at when they see them. Who knows why
The Whitney didn't show her films? That's what I thought was weak about that
show: they ignored other people who came after. They stopped arbitrarily in the
year 1987. There's a whole era that has occurred since then.
NZ: I don't talk to him anymore.
Gore is a mainstream clown who doesn't have anything to do with underground
film. He's just another opportunist. When he discovered the Film Bulletin, he
was thrilled because it was a chance for him to learn something new. He was
able to reprint some of my articles and use my knowledge to make himself appear
more aware. But for him it was a social ladder on his way to the money. Film
Threat is like Entertainment Weekly now. It doesn't matter. It's too
mainstream.
NZ: I like them a lot. I hate
Thundercrack! I like Richard Kern's films. The list is endless. There are so
many directors. I love Otto Muehl and Oscar Fischinger.
NZ: Yeah. I think it's a terrible
thing what Twiggy did. (laughter). She made millions of women insecure. I give
parts to many different types of women, like Kembra Pfahler is quite thin,
while Brenda Bergman is quite voluptuous. If you look at the past, this
anorexic fetish that we are being oppressed by is only a recent historical
development, and it will disappear. Artists will then pay attention to big
beautiful women like they have for centuries. That's what I do. It's sad that
women are made to feel inferior by fashion models that are so anorexic that
they are really genetic freaks. To me these hyper-skinny women are more like
boys. It's almost a conspiracy by people who hate women.
NZ: Martin Scorsese, I guess.
It's possible to unlearn the mistakes they teach there. I'm against so called
underground festivals that charge entry fees and are just there to exploit film
students and fool people. But who cares what I say? There's a bunch of idiots
who go to these festivals like lemmings. If people want to learn more about the
history of underground film they can write to me.
NZ: Both Tessa and Ela, for some
reason, are very much about hiding their work, and not being seen too much, and
making it difficult for people to see what they have done. I don't understand.
With Totem of The Depraved, I thought up the title to the movie, and I came up
with all the ideas, and I was promised a print of the film which I was never
given. Ela decided to hide the movie so nobody would be able to see it.
Therefore since I came up with the title, which I had been saving for years to
go with the right project, I thought why waste it? I will use it for my new
book. The book is very similar to the film. It's about my methods of surviving
in the city with very little money, and the people who I interacted with.
AK: I guess it's obvious that
Dada and Surrealism has influenced The Cinema of Transgression, but how has
Situationism and Guy Debord influenced you?
NZ: Affecting everyday life and
creating a situation is more important than how much money you make. I was
showing movies on the wall out of the bar at 2A across the street on the wall.
People were seeing it as they were walking by on the sidewalk or driving by in
a car. When I projected Kembra having sex with an octopus on the building it
seemed to really upset the bartender downstairs. But it also got people excited
noticing something they wouldn't have seen otherwise, creating a revolution in
everyday life.
NZ: I was putting up posters and
the undercover cops arrested me, and took me in an unmarked car to the 9th
Precinct. They put me in a cell for two hours and fingerprinted me. Now I have
to appear in court. I didn't realize it was illegal to put up posters. I have
been doing it for 15 years. How else are people supposed to know that a movie
is playing somewhere?
No comments:
Post a Comment